Author Topic: Calling all Insteon users...  (Read 8169 times)

danielduerr

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Calling all Insteon users...
« on: April 25, 2012, 01:43:25 AM »
Hi everyone,

I'm a new TED 5000 user with a large Insteon home automation system installed in my home.  I'm also an Insteon developer and have a lot of experience troubleshooting PLC issues (i.e. filters, noise sources, etc.).

Prior to installing the TED 5000, I was experiencing excellent Insteon performance (i.e. low Insteon hop counts, 100% ACK rate, fast device responses).  After the installation, I am experiencing a the random flickering on 3 different switches (1 dual band switchlinc dimmer, 1 regular switchlinc dimmer, 1 keypadlinc dimmer).  These 3 switches aside, the rest of my system seems to be performing normally as it had before.

I need to resolve the flicker issue but would really prefer not to have to isolate one system from the other since one of my MTUs is on a sub-panel at the end of a 400' underground conduit run and I don't want to isolate the entire run (i.e. choose Insteon or TED).  I'm very familiar with the usual "isolate it" response which most people have used to resolve this sort of issue but I'm hoping that we can drum up some success stories out there where people did NOT have to do this.  Isolation is impractical and a last resort for me at this point.

If you are an Insteon/TED user who has the two systems co-existing successfully, PLEASE share your experiences here.  Maybe we can help each other better understand how to really solve these issues -- not Band-aid them with filters.

Thanks!
Daniel

DavidCB74

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Re: Calling all Insteon users...
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 05:01:51 AM »
Hey Daniel,

I can't give you any insight with Insteon & TED co-habitating.  I tried all the tricks out there to resolve some chronic X10 issues.  Even after moving all X10 related circuits to the opposite phase from the dedicated, isolated, & filtered TED circuit, I still ended up changing over to Z-wave.  It's not my intention to knock TED, i'm enjoying own it, but it was sad to put aside all my X10 devices after some 25 years of use.  Maybe playing musical phases with TED's blk/red wires and your 3 troublesome dimmers could yield some favorable results.  Somewhere I've read the PLC signal is stronger on TED's black wire, (using the 120volt mode on the TED is less than ideal in my opinion), but separating the stronger signal wire from your 3 dimmers.... Anyway, if you see where i'm going with that.  

Good Luck with it,
David

DavidCB74

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Re: Calling all Insteon users...
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2012, 05:04:16 AM »
"i enjoy owning it" that is....

efahnoe

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Re: Calling all Insteon users...
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 05:45:30 PM »
I have a modest Insteon setup and used a TED 1000 unit before switching to a TED 5000. I don't see any simple fixes but the observations below might help:

1.  I did experience Insteon problems with the TED 1000 MTU.  The Insteon carrier frequency is very close to that used by TED. The Insteon receivers are not selective enough discriminate against the periodic MTU periodic transmission particularly if they are strong. I ended up isolating the 120 volt line for the MTU and RDU with a tuned parallel filter.  This worked fine.  When I switched to the TED 5000, the need for such isolation wasn't needed.  Don't know why - perhaps it is due to the lower impedance of driving both the red and black phases which would halve the signal levels.

2.  Most of my Insteon devices are relay outputs, I note that the problems you mentioned were with operating dimmers. The triacs in dimmers switch off at zero (current) crossings. This undoubtedly introduces noise at the zero crossings when PLC transmissions occur and further challenges the Insteon receivers.

3. I also note that you have multiple MTUs.  I believe these transmit on sequential zero crossings.  You might try disconnecting some or all but one to see if Insteon stability improves.  Maybe swapping the MTU locations would help.

4. Perhaps reducing the PLC signal output from the MTUs  that cause problems would help (see 1. above). A tuned attenuator (ex. a parallel filter shunted by a resistor) on each MTU line connection might work with some experimentation.

tbirdsaw

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Re: Calling all Insteon users...
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 01:15:45 PM »
Daniel,

Interesting... I have a fairly decent-sized Insteon installation myself, and noticed the flickering as well.  However, I assumed that it was because I was using LED lamps in most of my light fixtures, which I figured was a combination of the triac in the dimmer not always switching on at the same time (found using an oscilloscope), and the fact that the LED lamps appear to have a fairly slow sampling rate of the current voltage level.

Now that you've mentioned that your TED5000 appears to be triggering the issue, I wonder if that is what has been causing the flickers I've seen. I had the TED5000 long before I started outfitting the house with Insteon devices, so it's always been present. The TED5000 is on it's own circuit, but I suspect that the signal bleeds through the breaker. I also occasionally notice some of my repeaters flickering their status LED as if there is some Insteon traffic... when I know there shouldn't be any.

The only trick I found so far to improve the flickering is to put a heavy load (e.g. a incandescent light, or in my case, an old dimmable Cold-Cathode Fluorescent Lamp that I used before the LEDs) on the circuit AFTER the dimmer. Inserting a filter did nothing. Note that all the lights on dimmers are the recessed lighting fixtures, and all the lighting circuits with dimmers have at least four lights on it. The heavier load doesn't completely get rid of the flickering, but it reduces it to an almost-insignificant amount (read: I don't notice it when I'm not looking at the lights directly) when the lights are dimmed.

I don't have the problem when the lights are at full brightness. While I haven't directly examined the signal quality of the Insteon traffic, things generally seem to work. I'm using MisterHouse + PLM to control some of the modules, but I'm still working on getting everything programmed in as time permits.


fximaging

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Re: Calling all Insteon users...
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 03:29:04 AM »
I have a ted 5000, and have various insteon and x-10 devices, as well as a 9kw solar system that uses the envoy plc system to communicate with 36 inverters. The only issue i have is one of my x-10 controlled light turns on at various times. I have an all-housecode reciever, so changing housecode does not seem to help. I was having an issue with my outdoor led rope light staying on at a low level when turned off via an insteon plug in dimmer, but i solved that by making an extension cord that is hard wired at the end with a double gang box with a receptacle and a switchlinc that controls the receptacle. i plugged the insteon lamp module into the receptacle, and i am able to send on/off commands from a wall mounted controller now, and my led rope lights turn on to their preset dim and work flawlessly now. no matter what i do, if i use a single insteon device when they are turned off they glow at 10% power.

i know i had to change the settings in the system layout to transmit amp to high ton both gateway and mtu, and i have the boxes checked for transmit gain and noise blanker selected. before doing that, i was having all kinds of issues.

david

DesireeGriffin

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Re: Calling all Insteon users...
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2013, 03:47:58 PM »
Hi everyone,

I'm a new TED 5000 user with a large Insteon home automation system installed in my home.  I'm also an Insteon developer and have a lot of experience troubleshooting PLC issues (i.e. filters, noise sources, etc.).

Prior to installing the TED 5000, I was experiencing excellent Insteon performance (i.e. low Insteon hop counts, 100% ACK rate, fast device responses).  After the installation, I am experiencing a the random flickering on 3 different switches (1 dual band switchlinc dimmer, 1 regular switchlinc dimmer, 1 keypadlinc dimmer).  These 3 switches aside, the rest of my system seems to be performing normally as it had before.

I need to resolve the flicker issue but would really prefer not to have to isolate one system from the other since one of my MTUs is on a sub-panel at the end of a 400' underground conduit run and I don't want to isolate the entire run (i.e. choose Insteon or TED).  I'm very familiar with the usual "isolate it" response which most people have used to resolve this sort of issue but I'm hoping that we can drum up some success stories out there where people did NOT have to do this.  Isolation is impractical and a last resort for me at this point.

If you are an Insteon/led lights user who has the two systems co-existing successfully, PLEASE share your experiences here.  Maybe we can help each other better understand how to really solve these issues -- not Band-aid them with filters.

Thanks!
Daniel


hello friend can you tell about the basic use of Insteon/TED and how can we apply it best in our homes?Please reply thanks in advance:)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 08:36:17 PM by DesireeGriffin »