TED5000 Beta R452/R240

[DougHo]

TED serial number was not on my 7/10/09 invoice; Page 2 of the 3 page manual seems to say that the gateway ID is automatic and mine currently says 210001.  Until few days ago the number at end of activation ID in Google Powermeter said 2004A9 but now says 210001.   HMM, JUST UNPLUGGED TED FROM WALL TO FIND THAT 2004A9 ON S/N STICKER, so the proper ID is not filling in automatically as manual implies, should I ignore the manual instructions (which say "Your Gateway ID will be shown.  Do not change this.") and see if it allows me to type in 2004A9, and should that be causing this Peak kW problem?
Sorry but I have not tried to open an outside port; I am a tester for the ongoing FCC broadband performance monitoring and their working setup is a router behind a router (without changing to bridged mode).  So Necessary port config might not be obvious, I can't test it myself (from outside), and I'm traveling soon.

[TedDev]

21001 is the default gateway id that is assigned by the firmware prior to the ID being assigned at the factory. Please submit a support ticket to the following address:
http://www.theenergydetective.com/support/tickets/submit-ticket and one of our techs will walk you through re-assigning the ID to your gateway (its not something you can update via footprints). After you assign that ID, lets run a "Reset to Factory Defaults" (your history will be intact) to clear out your system configuration. It may be a good opportunity to back up your history via the new installer to ensure your history isn't lost.

It sounds like your serial flash got corrupted during the upgrade which may be why the peak values are off. If that is the case, the "Reset to Factory Defaults" should take care of the issue. As a precaution, I'm going to add a note that users w/ 20-series gateways shouldn't upgrade to the beta. 21-series gateways will be fine (the 20-series gateway has less serial flash). If this is a serial flash issue, you may want to downgrade to R406/R233 since it uses a smaller serial flash footprint.

[TedDev]

Any issues related to 3rd party posting have been moved here: http://www.theenergydetectiveforums.com/index.php/topic,367.msg1441.html#msg1441

[DougHo]

TEDDev: I opened a support ticket requesting walk through of re-assigning ID, and they say the serial number change is okay.  Do they know something that you don't, or is it vice-versa?  I sent a comment back hoping that they eventually cooperate, because if they don't switch me back to number starting with 20 then presumably future mistakes could be made assuming that my hardware is 21-series.  Also, I assume your suggestion of downgrade to older firmware is *after* the ID gets corrected, not before.

[TedDev]

TEDDev: I opened a support ticket requesting walk through of re-assigning ID, and they say the serial number change is okay.  Do they know something that you don't, or is it vice-versa?  I sent a comment back hoping that they eventually cooperate, because if they don't switch me back to number starting with 20 then presumably future mistakes could be made assuming that my hardware is 21-series.  Also, I assume your suggestion of downgrade to older firmware is *after* the ID gets corrected, not before.

I just sent a note to support to take care of it. Since you use google powermeter, you need the ID changed back so they can track your usage.

[SherlockOhms]

Doug I responded to your ticket. We will need to downgrade you. The beta firmware is not compatible with the 20 XX XX Gateways.

[TedDev]

I've been thinking of getting a WiFi Thermostat.  Is this the one that is supported: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202352449/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

What support/functionality does TED have with this Thermostat?

TED will be able to read the current temperature and setpoint, and allow the use to change the current mode of operation (heat/cool/auto/off) and change the setpoint from within Footprints. On the CT80, we display current usage recorded by the TED5000 ("Now" power/cost, MTD energy/cost, TDY energy/cost).

We are compatible w/ the 3m50 but it may require a firmware upgrade from RTA (like the CT30/CT80). We'll keep the site posted on when those firmware updates will be available from RTA.

I have been able to verify that we are compatible w/ the 3m50 but that it will require the same firmware upgrade from RTA that the CT30/CT80 will need. We'll post a link to the firmware upgrade when it's available.

[JBurgess]

I had a chance to borrow an utility meter- Alpha Plus to see how the TOU demand readings from TED would compare.

For TOU the utility meter records peak demand and off peak demand separately. The utility in it’s billing multiplies these readings by the appropriate rate and charges the highest. The TED records the highest kW reading and the corresponding amount using the rate in effect. To emulate what my utility does, TED would need to calculate the cost of the current demand, and if higher than the peak cost stored, replace it with the current readings even if the kW is less. This would not require additional registers or tracking peak and off peak demand separately.

To work around this I set it for on peak only, since historically my greatest cost is the peak demand.

Next when trying to enter my demand charges, my utility starts billing after the first 5 kW. I understand there is a limited number of registers available so having TOU and tiers concurrently is a problem.

So I tried to work around this by figuring the cost of the first 5 kW and deducting it from my fixed charges. The resulted in a negative number. TED will not accept a negative number for fixed charges so I entered zero to be as close as I could. If TED would allow a negative number I could get this closer.

My peak demand on my TED was consistently higher than what the utility meter showed.  I think the TED is using some of the demand readings during off peak in calculating the demand for the first 15 during peak.

To work around this I entered another peak period for the first 15 minutes of my peak time. I set the energy rates the same as the rest of the peak, but entered zero for the demand charges. This produced readings close to what the utility meter read for demand.

I did notice TED calculates the energy tiers different than the utility meter while doing this. TED appears to changes tiers based on the total kWh usage rather than the kWh usage during each tier. This results in TED changing to the next tier too early. Hopefully tracking peak and off peak energy usage will be in a future release.

[TedDev]

I had a chance to borrow an utility meter- Alpha Plus to see how the TOU demand readings from TED would compare.
...

Good stuff. Thanks for the feedback. With demand charge, it does appear that there are a lot of variations from utility to utility, some of these enhancements are doable (i.e. choosing maximum price vs maximum consumption) for example we can fit in there by adding a flag check. Same may go for a negative number fixed charge, but that is something we would have to discuss internally as its not really how its supposed to be used.

With TOU's, we do not reset the 15 minute average every time the TOU chages...so the final 14 minutes of off-peak would be averaged in when you get to your first minute of peak. We wrestled with that implementation, but the utilities we spoke to said that's how they handled it. Again, that may be something we can add w/ a simple flag and code to reset it.

For the 5kW issue w/ tiers...could you not just setup the first tier for demand charges to be 0-5kw and use a $0.00 as the demand charge value, or are you saying w/the TOU plan the first 5kW is free?

For the tier issue, most of the utilities we have spoken to base it on total kWh usage. If your utility doesn't, all you would need to do is adjust the tier levels under system settings to reflect the difference in the tier levels (i.e. 0-800, 801-1600 would become  0-800, 801-2400, etc).

[JBurgess]

For the 5kW issue w/ tiers...could you not just setup the first tier for demand charges to be 0-5kw and use a $0.00 as the demand charge value, or are you saying w/the TOU plan the first 5kW is free?

With the TOU plan the first 5kW is free.

This how my utility (SRP in Phoenix area) explains it.

Per kW Charges (All kW over 5 kW for the maximum demand measured during the on-peak or shoulder-peak hours)

SUMMER SHOULDER PEAK  $4.21
SUMMER PEAK   $4.21
WINTER PEAK   $2.46

As a side note, they charge Demand on both generation and consumption. This is not an issue for me.

1.1.26 DEMAND: The rate at which Electrical Energy is delivered to or by an
electric system or part of an electric system at a given instant or averaged
over any designated interval of time.

[JBurgess]

I got this explanation of how the demand is programed in their meters. In my case of TOU it is programed as a 15 minute block. I think I understand you measure a rolling demand with a 15 minute interval with a 1 minute sub-interval.

[JBurgess]

When trying to use the dedicated MTU load profile, it seems to use the threshold as the power level for displaying power and cost. It doesn’t let me enter stages, so if I enter the highest stage of my air conditioner I miss out on the lower stage. If I enter the lowest stage it doesn’t count the extra power for the second compressor in calculating the cost. Is this how it’s supposed to work?

Question on the radio thermostat. Will there be the ability to password protect the thermostat settings like the configuration, so if I share footprints guests won’t be able to change the thermostat settings?

A suggestion. Under the TOU tab in the utility setup wizard, instead of the label being “TOU Rate Applicable?” it might more self explanatory to ask “Peak Rates Applicable?”

Lastly one more feature request for Demand. It will be more common when the polyphase TED is released, to have a place to enter a minimum demand charge. Mine is determined annually using a formula simplified is 80% of summer average peak charge. This could be entered annually, many of us have to update our energy rates more often than that anyway.

[TedDev]

When trying to use the dedicated MTU load profile, it seems to use the threshold as the power level for displaying power and cost. It doesn’t let me enter stages, so if I enter the highest stage of my air conditioner I miss out on the lower stage. If I enter the lowest stage it doesn’t count the extra power for the second compressor in calculating the cost. Is this how it’s supposed to work?

 If you want to catch both stages, you'll need to set up a profile for each stage. However, the "2nd stage" profile will include the first stage recordings as well as part of the total cost.

Question on the radio thermostat. Will there be the ability to password protect the thermostat settings like the configuration, so if I share footprints guests won’t be able to change the thermostat settings?

This is how its currently set up. If you password protect the config you'll need to supply the password before you can change modes or the temperature setpoint.

[biljol@pegasusaz.com]

Notes on the beta I see

Temps from the ct-30/3m50 are incorect both room temp and setpoint. can not chnage the setpoint. mode is not correct unit is in auto showing off. (interminent) Setpoint temp displayed incorect showing heat setpoint I think and should be cool point.


The Weather is incorect the zip code is set corecty but showing 97 when it is 103 currently.

Load will not work for us in AZ at all my Heat pump has a swing from 4.X to 7.x thought the day and my water heater is 5.X so you can guess what happens.  I could work this out if there was a way to say load for water heater only durring hours X-X. I have a timmer on my water heater so it is only on from 5am to 6 am and my ac is usualy not on in that time..  this might be a easy fix.

Was also thinking if you could take the data from 3m50 to see the turn on and turn off of the heat pump fan/cool/heat modes and then coralate that with the load draw at that time you should be able to get close untill we can furgure out another option.

On a side note I have a smart meter and I seems that SRP says I use .7 to 1.2 KW more than ted who should I beleive and how would I adjust it?

JBurgess I am on srp also I called and they said there are no demand charges on any of there plans is yours a res or bis account? if res mabe we should have a converstaton or two about using TED in AZ.

biljol

[JBurgess]

The temp issue is displaying projected instead of current. Something with the server they get the weather from.

Under SRP I have both residential and Business accounts.

You can adjust calibration under the advanced drop down menu.